Flooding in England

Post by **faceless** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:04 pm

Global warming isn't real - this is all just perfectly normal during the summer!

Up here we're having a really nice dry sunny day though.

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:20 pm

More like Global Flooding .. It didn't feel like a warm summer when the torrential rains were coming down.

Though reminds me of the tropical storms in the sub-continent when rain tends to occur in summer (whilst in UK the summers USED TO BE on the dry side).

No kidding : I bet we will get a hose-pipe ban soon .. after all, this is all the wrong type of rain.

11antoniacourt · Post by **11antoniacourt** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:54 pm

We've been seeing the reports on our evening news. No deaths or life threatening injuries I hope. Face, can you tell us anything about the picture? Where is it? Do you know? I love the two old gentlemen just taking it in stride.

Post by **faceless** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:17 am

the big picture is from some place called Upton Severn or something like that - the old boys are a pic that was sent into the BBC by someone. I especially appreciated the fact one's smoking a pipe like he sits there every day... haha

It really does seem a big scale disaster though, there's a lot of people without fresh water or electricity or both, which is not usually a problem here at all.

6ULDV8 · Post by **6ULDV8** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:35 am

I saw a bit about this on BBC World News (BBC America) this morning.

By no means is it on the same level as Texas, but non the less it's not good to see.

Something was mentioned however that got me thinking...
Records show that this 'Freakish' weather & flooding happened back in the early-ish 1700's also.
(This was on church records in Tewkesbury (spelling))

I bring this up (the above records) as I am one of those who feel that all this "Global Warming" talk ignores weather patterns on record.
Our planet is not round, our trip around the sun is not round, the moon does not go around the earth on a perfect circular course etc etc etc...
This planet has a history of freezing, getting hot etc & all well before anybody could cry "Global warning".

I feel sorry for anybody subject to being flooded, but please (directed to the media) lay off of the "Global Warning" shite & recognize that this is a NATURAL course of events as seen in records & proven many times over.
(as per records & scientific proclamations over a great many years)

Post by **faceless** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:41 am

prove it's 'shite' then

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:04 pm

6ULDV8 wrote:lay off of the "Global Warning" shite & recognize that this is a NATURAL course of events ]

I believe Global Warming is occurring (i.e. the world is warming) .. and I don't think it is shite. I wonder though if you really mean that you don't think it is "man made". On this we might be closer in viewpoint -- or but another way : I am sure mankind has messed up this planet and likely assisted in global warming, but my issue is I believe the governments are totally hypocritical in imposing taxes on citizens, whilst the governments are literally "Burning" other countries. Anyone wonder how much energy an army uses (including in all these missiles & weapons & explosions) and how much energy is released by the WMDs which might be used against Iran if the neo-cons got their way ?

SpursFan1902 · Post by **SpursFan1902** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:10 pm

I think that the Global Warming people are ignoring the natural weather patterns in order to make the Global Warming issue more spectacular, to make it much more dramatic. They can point at natural swings, that would have happened anyway, such as the cyclical tendancies of hurricanes, and blame it all on Global Warming. I think that they use it as propaganda.

Post by **faceless** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:23 pm

The problem is, of course, that man-made pollution (mainly through industry, combustion engines and cattle for the beef industry) is tipping that natural fluctuation into the danger areas.

That's not propaganda, that's simple science.

6ULDV8 · Post by **6ULDV8** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:36 pm

SpursFan1902 wrote:I think that the Global Warming people are ignoring the natural weather patterns in order to make the Global Warming issue more spectacular, to make it much more dramatic. They can point at natural swings, that would have happened anyway, such as the cyclical tendancies of hurricanes, and blame it all on Global Warming. I think that they use it as propaganda.

Agreed.

We have known from 'Core Samples' taken all over the world, from 'Digs' all over the world & other such findings that this planet has had both heating & freezing going on over millions of years, that in even the past 2000 years we have seen great floods, great freezes & even huge heat waves...
(Even the bible talks of flooding)

The problem is that we can not predict the trends of the weather cycles, as we are not on a fully pre-determind trip within the solar system, all the planets have an ever changing eliptical course, the moon itself has moved further away from us (but appears to be more stable in it's course)....

Armed with the above knowledge I can not see how anybody can blame mankind for the shifting weather patterns & climate changes.

Yes, I also agree that mankind hasn't been the best paracite on the face of the earth pretaining to polutants, but when we look at cows & sheep (along with other such animals) who polute the planet too... well, we (mankind) is not entirely to blamer.

Perhaps it will be seen in the future as man saving the planet by replanting forests, using less fosil fuels etc... that is until the next time nature throws us a curve ball & planetry movements bring us back to what we are seeing now.

Post by **faceless** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:49 pm

There simply wouldn't be enough cows, sheep or whatever to cause such devastating damage if we didn't mass-produce them for meat.

6ULDV8 · Post by **6ULDV8** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:18 pm

faceless wrote:There simply wouldn't be enough cows, sheep or whatever to cause such devastating damage if we didn't mass-produce them for meat.

I'm not sure that this is 100% accurate...
Add Pigs to the list also.

I am not sure of the ins & outs of cattle / livestock breeding, but I'm pretty certain that if left to their own devices that there would be a lot more of them roaming around.
Yes we breed them for foodstuffs, however a majority are killed off in their youth (for want of better terms).

I'd be more prone to say that we have marred their breeding rather than anything else.
Case in point being the buffalo / bison in the USA, until hunted down to near extinction they were seen in their hundreds of thousands roaming about... massive heards of them.
Whats to say that the same could not have happened to pigs, cows & sheep... left alone (no human influences & open spaces) we could be up to our eyeballs in methane could we not?

Perhaps chickens, that I'd agree with, chickens are certainly over bred by humans & could possibly be more in number out of our 'messing' with them.

Post by **faceless** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:33 pm

The bison situation was pretty much a one-off because of the massive landspace and climate. Such conditions don't exist in many places, which is why huge swathes of rainforest have been removed in order to make space for cattle-rearing in South America.

The majority of the world would see eating a cow as a complete waste of a resource - and I'd say that it's only the fact that they can be artificially inseminated and given all the health treatments (perhaps hormones) that there are so many of them now.

I like a steak as much as the next man, but I could quite easily do without, and have actually moved away from buying beef if possible. (good news for my body too - in more ways than one)

6ULDV8 · Post by **6ULDV8** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:45 pm

I suppose my point above was to liken the buffalo to cattle / livestock all over the world had man not started to breed them & also if we had not populated the planet in such ways as we have...

Perhaps I was looking towards the "What if" sittuation where man wasn't poluting the planet & not so big in animal husbandry, a time & place where animals were naturaly abundant & giving off tons of methane, eating greenstuffs etc...
Perhaps then the way the planets weather has been would be seen as acts of the gods (insert fav' one here) as it was back when the supposed preveilaing floods caused a geezer to build a huge boat & piss of his family. ;)

I can't & won't say that man hasn't had a hand in fucking up 'mother earth' in ohhh so many ways over the years, all I am saying is that had it been left alone to it's own natural devices we'd still be seeing climate changes such as that which we see now...

SpursFan1902 · Post by **SpursFan1902** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:07 pm

faceless wrote:The problem is, of course, that man-made pollution (mainly through industry, combustion engines and cattle for the beef industry) is tipping that natural fluctuation into the danger areas.

That's not propaganda, that's simple science.

Of course, but (and I think this has probably already been established in this thread), it is the way that the information is presented. There have been global weather issues since the begining of time (global cooling was a big influence during the Medieval and Middle Ages), but the way that the information is presented by the Global Warming group, that this the be all and end all and all of the changes are due to that. It's the skew, not the info.