[web]https://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341574,00.html[/web]
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What the???
Girl dies because of parents' faith
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eefanincan
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You know, when I was working in Pediatric Oncology, we saw these issues on more than one occasion. What happens here is that if the parents decline treatment (eg- chemotherapy, radiation, bone marrow testing, etc.). The parents would be taken to court and the child made a ward of the court. The court would then order the treatment to be implemented and when the child was well again (if the child got well), the parents regained their custody.
As a nurse I've got mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I understand better than most, what effective treatments are available to treat these conditions and I hate to see a child being denied treatment when I know they can be helped. On the other hand though, we supposedly live in a society where we're free to practice any religion we like.......... then we hear about the courts getting involved in situations like this, stepping on parental rights.
Now, in this situation, clearly the parents were, as face put it, "nutjobs", but I have seen situations --- mostly in oncology --- where the parents have thought things through, done tons of research and decided against treatment. So I guess it comes down to where do parental rights start and end, and when is it appropriate for the courts to become involved. All I can say is it's awful being caught in the middle and working with these families when there's these kinds of legalities.
As a nurse I've got mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I understand better than most, what effective treatments are available to treat these conditions and I hate to see a child being denied treatment when I know they can be helped. On the other hand though, we supposedly live in a society where we're free to practice any religion we like.......... then we hear about the courts getting involved in situations like this, stepping on parental rights.
Now, in this situation, clearly the parents were, as face put it, "nutjobs", but I have seen situations --- mostly in oncology --- where the parents have thought things through, done tons of research and decided against treatment. So I guess it comes down to where do parental rights start and end, and when is it appropriate for the courts to become involved. All I can say is it's awful being caught in the middle and working with these families when there's these kinds of legalities.
That's a good point, and the way to solve the problem would be to declare that Christian Scientists and Scientologists are not "religions", rather "cults". One of the things that pisses me off so much about the world is that Scientology is an accepted religion. It's an elitist plague that literally destroys people's lives.
The problem with that is different people have different opinions on what is adversely affecting someone. There's those who would say any religion at all is indoctrination of a child.
I don't know if this is true or not, but I seem to remember a case on the news of a Jewish woman who tried to sue a hospital because she collapsed of a heart attack and they saved her life by giving her a pig's heart. If a pig's heart is going to save a child's life, should we force Jewish or Muslim families to allow that into their child or not? It's a weird one! In their eyes it would mean the kid was going to hell, I guess, so I can understand why they'd be against it, but then again it's the death of a child...
I don't know if this is true or not, but I seem to remember a case on the news of a Jewish woman who tried to sue a hospital because she collapsed of a heart attack and they saved her life by giving her a pig's heart. If a pig's heart is going to save a child's life, should we force Jewish or Muslim families to allow that into their child or not? It's a weird one! In their eyes it would mean the kid was going to hell, I guess, so I can understand why they'd be against it, but then again it's the death of a child...
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eefanincan
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I'd not heard of that case Kate, but I see where it raises the question of how much do we let parents decide what's right for their kids before the gov't steps in. I think Skylace said it best when she said freedom of religion is a double edged sword.
I also recall seeing (although not directly involved) some situations where patients who were Jehovah's Witnesses questioned whether or not they'd receive blood products. This situation particularly irritates me because there are so many things that can be solved/treated by receiving a simple transfusion or administration of blood products. It's relatively easy and painless with minimal potential for complications. Would it be right for a J.W. parent to enforce these values on a child when it could potentially save their life? And yet, I understand and respect that that is their choice of religion. (Although on that one Kate, I would have to agree in having it declared a cult, my Grandfather is one and he is ill. We specifically asked him his wishes and will follow them but can't say we agree with them.).
I also recall seeing (although not directly involved) some situations where patients who were Jehovah's Witnesses questioned whether or not they'd receive blood products. This situation particularly irritates me because there are so many things that can be solved/treated by receiving a simple transfusion or administration of blood products. It's relatively easy and painless with minimal potential for complications. Would it be right for a J.W. parent to enforce these values on a child when it could potentially save their life? And yet, I understand and respect that that is their choice of religion. (Although on that one Kate, I would have to agree in having it declared a cult, my Grandfather is one and he is ill. We specifically asked him his wishes and will follow them but can't say we agree with them.).
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major.tom
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While I can appreciate the rights of the parents to their religious beliefs, I don't think it should allow them to refuse necessary medical treatment for their children. Adopting an ethos that allows you to risk the well-being of others doesn't seem like a particularly good ethos.
If children choose to adopt those beliefs when they're of age (should they have the good fortune to live so long), that is absolutely their right.
If children choose to adopt those beliefs when they're of age (should they have the good fortune to live so long), that is absolutely their right.
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eefanincan
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I agree tom, and yet, I guess what I'm saying is more about parental rights, than religion. Personally, I agree with what everyone's said here but I'm just wondering where the line is drawn in so far as what rights parents have. Is it possible that a parent who researches a condition, has all the facts and still declines treatment, could be correct? I have to say, if I were a parent, I would seriously consider not allowing my child to have a bone marrow transplant for example. I realize that may sound cruel to many people, but I know what some of the results can be, etc. Now if parents didn't have all the facts, etc. then of course, we need to intervene asap.
Whatever feelings people may have, it's certainly not a black and white issue, that's for sure.
Whatever feelings people may have, it's certainly not a black and white issue, that's for sure.
It's not at all. And it's easy for us to come up with solutions and ideas. However, since religion is something that is personal and is generally taught at home, you can't tell parents not to raise the kids in their faith. Religion, faith, spirituality, whatever you want to call it is something that is different for each person. It makes it a complicated problem for which there is no clear answer.eefanincan wrote:I agree tom, and yet, I guess what I'm saying is more about parental rights, than religion. Personally, I agree with what everyone's said here but I'm just wondering where the line is drawn in so far as what rights parents have. Is it possible that a parent who researches a condition, has all the facts and still declines treatment, could be correct? I have to say, if I were a parent, I would seriously consider not allowing my child to have a bone marrow transplant for example. I realize that may sound cruel to many people, but I know what some of the results can be, etc. Now if parents didn't have all the facts, etc. then of course, we need to intervene asap.
Whatever feelings people may have, it's certainly not a black and white issue, that's for sure.
I think there is a clear division point - and it comes just at the point where that teaching leads to the child's death before the time where they can make an educated choice whether to die for it.
The fact that most people who die for faith (mainly as pawns in clashes of religious or cultural identity) are young is the obvious problem for those who want their particular culture to be continued though.
I think I'll start a religion - the figurehead will probably need to be Groucho Marx.
The fact that most people who die for faith (mainly as pawns in clashes of religious or cultural identity) are young is the obvious problem for those who want their particular culture to be continued though.
I think I'll start a religion - the figurehead will probably need to be Groucho Marx.
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major.tom
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How about Ted's Church of the Very Bright Lights?faceless wrote:I think I'll start a religion - the figurehead will probably need to be Groucho Marx.
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