What is wrong with people?!

[nekokate]

Today's newspaper stories have done my head in, so I need to have a rant.

Eight Jewish students at a yeshiva seminary were shot dead last night by a Palestinian armed with a Kalashnikov AK47 rifle and a pistol in by far the worst attack on Israeli civilians in Jerusalem for more than four years.

and

Gordon Brown today condemned any abuse of members of the armed forces wearing uniforms in public by people opposed to the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Those are based around the two topics I'm most interested in. The Iraq war and the Israel / Palestine conflict. Even without acknowledging the obvious tragedy, both are really bad news for the Left.

My question (rhetorical, mostly) is WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE??!!

Don't they realise that verbally abusing uniformed officers is a really idiotic thing to do? That it will not help the general perception of the political Left and the Anti-War Movement? Infact, it will make loads of people think we're all cunts?! Stupid bastards, don't jeer at soldiers, it's not their fault! God!!

I'm sure it was just a minority of morons, but it drives me crazy!

As for the massacre in Jerusalem - same question, bigger scale. This can only make things worse. The Right-wing and the Zionist apologists will grab this and run with it. The argument that Hamas rockets hardly ever do any damage, that the death ratio is so vastly disproportionate, will now appear much more diluted thanks to these nutters. This is yet another unforgivable incident that any supporter of Palestine will have to defend themselves against with the assertion that if they support the Palestinian cause then they support the gunning down of Jews.

Get me over there as peace envoy! I'll knock their heads together.

[Mandy]

A comment on each story :

1) The shooter was a resident of East Jerusalem, so that makes him an Israeli, not a Palestinian .. or we say Palestinian when we want to denounce someone.

2) The decay in respect for authority comes from the top. If Gordon Brown walked around, he would get some of the same. If Gordon Brown wants society to respect authority, then he should act responsibly .. and especially not to give BILLIONS of our money to Northern Rock so it can bail out its banker buddies who lent it money so they can pay billions in bonuses (as they did over last Christmas).

[Brown Sauce]

yeah, but Brown will say it's anti war types when it may well be the sort of bored anti establishment ill treated youths that chuck bricks at fire engines.

[Mandy]

Good point Brown Sauce ... We also have so many drunks, criminals etc. that it isn't safe for ANY of us to walk outside .. most of England is becoming a no-go area

[faceless]

sorry kate, but I'd happily fire off some abuse at bombers of innocents/those who don't pose a threat to this country. If we can't bring change at the top then making people feel less inclined to sign up is a fair tactic.

[luke]

interesting to note;

Gordon Brown today condemned any abuse of members of the armed forces wearing uniforms in public by people opposed to the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

condemned any abuse ... i was listening to them go on about this on the radio and the news and there doesn't seem to be an actual details on any actual abuse - nobody knows, if anything, what was said to who or by who, or when - nothing - the police have said they aren't aware of anything. i've heard the rumor it was iraqi and afghan refugees living here - it seemed to have missed the minds of the callers that the reason they might be here might be because we've blown their countries to shit

and again, on the other story - it doesn't say who it was, even the sun made a point of saying it wasn't hamas, and didn't mention who it was

i don't really see either as a 'bad news' for the left

[luke]

i was just reading on the bbc site

The guidance was issued in January 2007 advising personnel to wear civilian clothes in certain areas for fears of abuse. It followed a verbal incident in December 2006.

i wonder what prompted them to bring up this story again today? as far as i can make out there hasn't been any new allegations of abuse ... i wonder if theres something else today they are trying to hide ...

[nekokate]

Maybe I got it all wrong, I dunno.

It was a rant rather than a well thought out mini-essay, though.

You can't argue, however, that the perceptions of those two stories are very bad news.

As for yelling abuse at members of the armed forces: I just wouldn't. They may well have been sent (to borrow a GGism) on a pack of lies to smash up someone else'ss country, but the key word there is sent. If a guy stabs someone in the street you don't jail the knife, and equally I wouldn't abuse British soldiers, I'd abuse the cowardly, scheming, heartless government officials whos decision it was to commit these atrocities.

Believe me, if I saw Blair walking down the street he'd soon know about it, but shouting abuse at British soldiers just seems so counter-productive, especially considering that a lot of them have just been roped into service due to a lack of other options, and a lot of them apparently don't even agree with the wars.

I mean, can you imagine, if he hadn't been killed, shouting "Oi! You murdering twat!" at Gordon Gentle if you saw him in the street. C'mon... Let's aim our ire at the people who are really responsible and guilty.

I'm interested in the assertion that there hasn't actually been any proof positive of exactly what sort of verbal abuse the story is about, either, or who was doing the shouting. It could well be a story that's been blown out of all proportion...

[faceless]

they're not soldiers though, they are RAF - mainly private-school educated and entirely aware of what they have chosen as a career. It's not pretty though, I agree.

Fact is, soldiers actually slag them off too!

[nico]

As for the massacre in Jerusalem - same question, bigger scale. This can only make things worse. The Right-wing and the Zionist apologists will grab this and run with it. The argument that Hamas rockets hardly ever do any damage, that the death ratio is so vastly disproportionate, will now appear much more diluted thanks to these nutters. This is yet another unforgivable incident that any supporter of Palestine will have to defend themselves against with the assertion that if they support the Palestinian cause then they support the gunning down of Jews.

Hamas retracts claim it was responsible for J`lem yeshiva massacre, it was just announced;
https://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/961966.html

[Mandy]

i wonder what prompted them to bring up this story again today? as far as i can make out there hasn't been any new allegations of abuse ... i wonder if theres something else today they are trying to hide ...

Or they are trying to capitalise on the "Harry" story, so as to get people to idolise the forces & join and got those nice shiny uniforms where they can go off & kill lots of innocent people "because they are following orders".

A thank you to BBC for again implementing the spin of the day.

[faceless]

I'm hearing on Galloway's show that neither he nor Karl have heard abuse at servicemen - maybe George should have visited a few pubs in Finnieston (where he was MP). If a soldier walked in there in uniform he would have been battered because of NI and the Catholic population here.

Personally I've called the drivers of a missile truck (in Hampshire) a bunch of cunts. I was 16 at the time, but I stand by it now.

[Comsatangel]

It's a calculated attempt to capitalise on the right wing jingoistic fervour that was being stirred up by the Prince Harry story. Check out the Have Your Say section on the BBC website. People are actually posting comments suggesting that anyone who challenges a member of the armed forces should be prosecuted for treason. One comment even states that if it weren't for "our boys" "...we'd all be muslims by now.." This comment has been recommended by over two hundred people. I have complained and have attempted to have the post removed, but this is exactly the kind of reaction the government wants.

Funnily enough, all of this reminds me of my time growing up in Hereford. I lived near the SAS base and was regularly beaten up by the SAS soldiers who took exception to the way I dressed. I was a goth, so I was clearly asking for it. Three of them once beat me so badly I was hospitalised for four days. They kicked the hell out of me whilst my girlfriend at the time just stood and screamed. She later told me that whilst I was lying unconscious, they threatened to rape her if she didn't shut up. This sort of thing was by no means an isolated incident in Hereford in the '80s. Several of my female friends were molested and a number of other friends were badly beaten simply because of their appearance. All by the SAS. No charges were ever brought. Ranks were closed and alibis conveniently provided.

[faceless]

more power to you mr angel

[major.tom]

Is Jerusalem in Israel, technically? Isn't it Occupied Territory?

The few stories I've read or watched seem to go out of the way to say it's the most recent attack in Israel. But I'm pretty sure that most countries don't recognize (officially, at least) Jerusalem as being part of Israel.