david irving and nick griffin at the oxford union

nekokate · Post by **nekokate** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:55 am

I agree with Salim that there is a definite hypocricy in the "freedom of speech" issue, but that shouldn't influence people's rationalisation.

Just because something is unjust in one instance, shouldn't justify every other injustice. That's the sort of self-defeatist argument that my father uses, like "Oh, so you support the Muslims, do ya? Well why not go to Saudi Arabia and see how much they support you over there!"

As for this argument about "it's ok as long as it's not directly inciting violence"... I was bullied horrifically for years, all psychological and always very subtly, so that no one could really be accused of anything. Just because something hides under the guise of not overtly inciting violence doesn't mean that it won't covertly.

Let me remind people of a poem that David Irving wrote specifically to sing to his daughter, which explained to her about "half-breed" children. It went:

I am a Baby Aryan
Not Jewish or Sectarian
I have no plans to marry an
Ape or Rastafarian.

Is anyone seriously saying that this man doesn't have an agenda?

Salim201 · Post by **Salim201** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:32 am

If someone wants to shout abuse outside my house all his life then there is no law to stop him, as long he's not on my property. that's a strange example?

I also don't see how bullying enters into the argument, that's really between the individual engagements, if its kids then adults should get involved to resolve the abuse, if its adults then other adults should help. There's no central solution to that.

I accept that if someone is just deliberately trying to cause offence, then those cases are wrong, but there's no way to regulate that and you can't go down the cencorship route.

Post by **faceless** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:48 am

It's not a strange example at all - it's an example of how unfettered free-speech can affect anyone directly. There are many other examples, such as a drunk idiot in the street, where free-speech becomes less important than the rights of others not to have to put up with their shite, or in more damaging examples like the bullying Kate went through.

As I said in my first post in this thread, I'm in favour of these bawbags being given a platform to be heard at Oxford, but only on the basis that their insidious arguments can be observed by people who are able to observe them rather than absorb them. If they were planning an appearance at my local burgh hall I'd not have the same opinion.

Post by **faceless** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:27 pm

[web]https://www.uaf.org.uk/news.asp?choice=71123[/web]

The protest will be on just now - here's hoping there's some video footage available later on

luke · Post by **luke** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:06 pm

they showed a bit on channel4 - seemed to a fair crowd there, noisy bunch

Sad quest for notoriety

THE Oxford Union's decision to offer a platform to racists, anti-semites and Holocaust deniers in the ugly shape of Nick Griffin and David Irving is a pathetic effort to court publicity through controversy.

Union president Luke Tryl, who has hopes of becoming a Tory MP, insists that the invitations to these low-life specimens are based on the noble cause of defence of free speech.

Neither of these pathological liars has been denied free speech. On the contrary, too much of the media has offered them the opportunity to spout their drivel on the false premise that they dare to say what others think.

Their lying meanderings are freely available to any stunted individual who chooses to believe that all Britain's problems are traceable to a worldwide Jewish conspiracy, Jews' interchangeability with Bolsheviks and their joint determination to swamp Britain with black and Slavic immigrants.

Their usefulness to Mr Tryl lies simply in getting his name more widely known as a study in notoriety.

With luck, Tory leader David Cameron may well decide that Mr Tryl's sad quest for notoriety is a valid reason to remove his name for any list of approved parliamentary candidates.

from the morning star

luke tryl made it on channel4 news, talking about supporting freedom of speech - not a word about finkelstein ...

Post by **faceless** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:32 pm

I'm just watching ITN news and they're going to be showing a report in a few minutes of the protesters breaking into the hall... I'll post it as soon as I can

luke · Post by **luke** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:33 pm

breaking in?! go on!

i'll have to dust off my tv for this!

Brown Sauce · Post by **Brown Sauce** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:41 pm

they stopped it then .. fair play to 'em ..

Post by **faceless** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:00 pm

luke · Post by **luke** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:10 pm

who was the guy with his top off?! its a bit cold for that type of thing

nekokate · Post by **nekokate** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:17 pm

Excellent. Well done to all those protestors.

Post by **faceless** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:55 pm

Post by **faceless** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:51 am

[web]https://www.oxfordmail.net/display.var.1 ... _union.php[/web]

The comments are worth reading.

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:10 am

Guardian Article :
https://www.guardian.co.uk/Politics/farr ... ss&feed=11

luke · Post by **luke** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:05 pm

recording here apparently from when griffin got to speak last night

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/YH0kESbFHCk&re ... ram><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/YH0kESbFHCk&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/gBF9ndSI82M&re ... ram><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/gBF9ndSI82M&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/Hr9ol0jCTE4&re ... ram><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/Hr9ol0jCTE4&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

apparently he gets a round of applause at the end!

couchtripper

david irving and nick griffin at the oxford union

should david irving and nick griffin be able to speak at the oxford union?