what do we do to get it stopped? ( from saturdays show )

[luke]

there was a caller on saturday to georges show, keith from hackney ( 74.47 into the recording on here ) regarding the forthcoming attack on iran and keith says 'what can we do to get it stopped, have you got any suggestions?'

apart from the forthcoming demo, there are none, and keith says he's been on war demos before and what ever the war coalition has done so far hasn't worked ...

geroge asks for suggestions ... so lets have a brainstorming, on stopping the invasion of iraq, and halting any attack on iran

see, i'm with keith, i always go to the marches, but i think i said on here after the last one its pretty pointless really in that its not achieving anything, the government would much rather have people like us out for a saturday march around london where they can manage the medias coverage of us ( none on the last demo against the occupation of palestine ) instead of doing more direct action kinda stuff ...

i think i said as well on here i dreamed that on one of the marches people would just stay, bring a packed lunch or something and get hundreds of thousands of us to just block as much as the centre of london as possible - stop business working, close it down, stay camped out for days/weeks ... i reckon if business was loosing money, the pressure would soon mount on government ... probably wouldn't work though, the police would steam in, we'd run out of food after a day or so, but its a nice idea

what if like the 2 million that first came on the march, if we just stopped buying things. apart from food to survive, bills etc - you just don't buy anything, you don't participate in the economy - that might have an effect ...

how about a mass fasting? how would the government handle something like that?

these are just silly ideas really, hopefully others will something a bit better

i should rewatch ghandi for some ideas

there just must be something, the massive amount of people against this crazyness, collectively, there must be some way of causing enough trouble that government has to address things ...

maybe yogic flying is the answer ...

[faceless]

I think the best way to promote change is to get more of the people in the armed forces onside. How that would be achieved is another matter...

[luke]

yeah good point, i think it was ghandi who said something like the future of a warless world is when the youth refuses to join the army ... or maybe it was einstein ..

i remember listening to some meeting on the politics channel about army recruitment and retention, loads of people who end up in the army do as a last resort kinda thing, a massive amount come from broken homes - of course there are people that like the army and all that serving queen and country stuff, but i bet they are a small amount ... i've don't think i've ever met a single person that wanted to join the army ...

problem is now, they have those troops signed up for an x year contract, they're kinda stuck the ones already in ...

maybe we need to place anti war protesters outside all the army recruitment offices to help explain to potential solders the real reasons for these wars - if they still wanna put their lives on the line for big business ... well you can't stop them

[major.tom]

Getting more soldiers to join the anti-war movement might help. But I'm sure there already are many soldiers involved, and I doubt you'll get many to disobey orders. And if they do disobey orders (even if the orders are illegal) it will be used against them, decreasing their PR value.

I wonder if it's possible to form a class action lawsuit to get an injunction against the gov't launching pre-emptive strikes on a soveign nation. Anything more radical will get you criticized and largely marginalized by the media.

[luke]

sorry i was a bit stoned when i started this thread

i think the media should be a target as well, its only by them paving the way by amplifying instead of questioning the governments claims that they get away with it.

but then it comes down to how can you put pressure on the media? lots of people already email, take this current orb study and 1.2millione deaths, all the media knows about that, they just choose not to report it, and the few times it has been covered its always in a way to try and discredit it, without explaining why or the differences between studys etc

if storys like this were given the coverage they deserve, and the true reality of war was known, would government still be able to get away with it?

if the media was forced to use the correct language, like calling mercenaries 'security contractors' or the resistance 'insurgents', would it be as easy for them to do it?

if the media had been a real media before iraq, i doubt the invasion would have happend

[major.tom]

Good point, Luke. When I do see an article that seems particularly odious, I write to the ombudsman. I almost never get a reply, but at least they know there's one more person irritated by their shoddy reporting.

I've even written to Democracy Now to ask them to stop using the term "detainees" when discussing those held at Guantanamo Bay. They're Prisoners of War and are entitled to the protections laid out under the Geneva Conventions. Calling them "detainees" only plays into the hands of those denying them their rights.

[Mandy]

That's great Garry. If you post a copy of your complaint here at the Couch, others might read the article and file their own complaints.

[major.tom]

That's a good idea, Mandy. Rallying against bias or injustice is always worthwhile.

"Strength in numbers," as the saying goes.

[Salim201]

what needs to happen is for there to be a pithy, direct alternative to mass media, ala moveon.org, but a branch here in Britain. With an increased membership we can start to fund provocative ad campaigns and use an increasing online market to mobilise people.


There are thousands that would support this, just need some organisation. If we can get a massive ad on page 3 of the independant or the guardian, it costs around 30,000, we could mobilise this without a problem if the right marketing was done, it would start to give a voice to so many people who are increasingly marginalised. I really admired what moveon.org did, they directed the political debate with the help of their individual users mobilising to fund the campaign!!! LETS DO IT!!!!! but don't tell brown


There is no media conspiracy, we live in a free society there is just no mobilisation because the media do succeed in making people feel helpless, this doesn't mean that they close avenues, its all about sales, if murdoch thought he would make more money he would be publishing dissident literature, the fact is he has no interest, people like simple pictures drawn for them, and domestic debate to be limited to things like immigration and terrorism, rather than things that affect peoples lives like the level of inequality, corporate domination, privitisation, and the attack on workers unions.

[Mandy]

Or, how about beating Murdoch at his own game :

<embed src="https://www.metacafe.com/fplayer/827544/ ... l_girl.swf" wmode="transparent" pluginspage="https://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" height="345" width="400">

See https://www.livfilms.blogspot.com/ where the top video, when she is crying, is actually disturbing. Though she says in the profile that she disabled comments, so unsure why she is upset her comments were deleted. Maybe she updated the profile afterwards to drive people away from metacafe.

If others who are anti-Bush/Brown/Blair did the same, how much publicity would that get (for free) ?

[faceless]

With an increased membership we can start to fund provocative ad campaigns and use an increasing online market to mobilise people.

Was this your idea salim? I don't mean to offend you if it was, but it sounds like middle-management-bollox speak.

Why not make £30000 and go and save some lives with it, or give it to one of the many charities already setup just for that?

[Mandy]

I agree with the thrust of Salim's points, though the UK has less incentives to give to non-profit organisations, and a much smaller number of people prepared to give money.

Where the money raised is spent is another issue.

[Salim201]

its because of people like you that no-one does anything, i don't need negative energy if its not positive i don't wanna hear it thanks

[faceless]

because of people like me? I'm someone who provides all that you see before you on this site, with a tiny budget. Making grand gestures means nothing without the foundational support required.

[Mandy]

what needs to happen is for there to be a pithy, direct alternative to mass media, ala moveon.org, but a branch here in Britain.

That's exactly why https://SpideredNews.com was launched -- so total support from me on that side.

Though donations sadly lagging.