Learn from the fall of Rome, US warned

[Lostinthestates]

Regarding divorce, don't forget the Catholic view on divorce (which ties the first & fifth point together). I assume you aren't catholic.

America is run by right wing protestants rather than catholics! And I am not catholic - you are right.

[Lostinthestates]

Congress (and democrats) are still pursuing a pro-war, pro-Israeli policy. Even Obama said he would bomb Pakistan without permission from the Pakistani government. Almost every candidate has kissed multiple times the Israeli ass (and been handsomely rewarded)

Slightly out of context - he said he would bomb terrorist cells - not just Pakistan as a whole! Did cost him dearly in the election race as well!

I am saying you aren't reading it carefully .. since this was THE top US government inspector. There is NO OTHER on his level or above.
Your reply assumes there are many .. this is as clear cut as you can get from an IMPARTIAL non-partisan source.

Haven't you thought he might be trying to influence the up-coming election with this statement - or at least speed up the withdrawal of groups out of Iraq (a very powerful and popular notion within the US at the moment!!).

[Mandy]

Haven't you thought he might be trying to influence the up-coming election with this statement - or at least speed up the withdrawal of groups out of Iraq (a very powerful and popular notion within the US at the moment!!).

By his own words, he is trying to influence POLICY .. it doesn't matter who is in the chair, both parties' policies fall foul of the the US's top government inspector.

So yes, he is .. RIGHTLY .. trying to influence the upcoming election .. but he will likely fail, and US government will carry on in it's current path which will lead to the destruction of the US way of life (to the benefit of a country which used the US as it's Rottweiler). Yep, pro-Israeli policies drained the US ...

[DavidGig]

I think Lostinthestates may be taking the idea of a country's "fall" too literally. It's not likely to be a single event where you can say, "THAT was the day the U.S. fell."

It's more like a process, marked by things like a gradual fall in the currency, increasing difficulty in getting the international community to follow its wishes (think of China's ability to thumb its nose at us), slowly eroding internal living standards.

No politician is ever going to seriously worry about it, because it's outside his career time-horizon. But I don't think any expert disagrees with the problems identified in the GAO assessment. Maybe they can be solved, or maybe not.

But changes in the world order definitely happen. Think of the fall of the British Empire: full recognition that its days were indeed over didn't really sink into the national consciousness until sometime around the 1950s. (It came as a shock to be forced out of Egypt--perhaps like the shock now being experienced in America at being fought to a standoff by an impoverished third-world country.) At the beginning of the century Britain ruled the world.

[major.tom]

I'm joining this thread pretty late (you've all been busy!), but I'll add a few words of agreement with DavidGig's last post. The fall of an empire is gradual and creeping (not unlike a glacier). It's big, and cold, with all kinds of ugly bits stuck inside until one day revealed by its melting.

A major milestone in this process, I think, is the discarding of the rule of law and receding of civil liberties.

The 3rd Reich is an exception. It peaked and fell at a rather alarming rate (roughly 2 decades), eclipsed only by the carnage left in its wake.

[Lostinthestates]

I think Lostinthestates may be taking the idea of a country's "fall" too literally. It's not likely to be a single event where you can say, "THAT was the day the U.S. fell."

It's more like a process, marked by things like a gradual fall in the currency, increasing difficulty in getting the international community to follow its wishes (think of China's ability to thumb its nose at us), slowly eroding internal living standards.

No politician is ever going to seriously worry about it, because it's outside his career time-horizon. But I don't think any expert disagrees with the problems identified in the GAO assessment. Maybe they can be solved, or maybe not.

But changes in the world order definitely happen. Think of the fall of the British Empire: full recognition that its days were indeed over didn't really sink into the national consciousness until sometime around the 1950s. (It came as a shock to be forced out of Egypt--perhaps like the shock now being experienced in America at being fought to a standoff by an impoverished third-world country.) At the beginning of the century Britain ruled the world.

I don't think that the US just because it had to put up with Bush for 8 years are suddenly in demise! I agree a lot of things are going wrong at the moment but they have always been there it isn't as if these issues are new. And let's just hope that the US is going to hold on to it's position for a bit longer as the alternatives at the moment are all a bit worrying - I do not want to see China as the leading world power quite honestly. And we all know what followed the demise of the Roman Empire - so I don't want that either!

[DavidGig]

"It isn't as if these issues are new."

But that's the point. These are trends that aren't easily reversed. The issues people are talking about--
- negative savings rates
- net debtor status
- hollowed-out economy
- looming retirement of baby boomers
- spiralling healthcare obligations
- overstretched military commitments
aren't "Bush-or-Hillary" issues. They were there before George and they're not going away under Hillary. But it's not true that "they have always been there". World orders DO change, and I think there's some evidence that we're sitting in the middle of another change.

"And let's just hope that the US is going to hold on to it's position ..."

Well, hope is an entirely different issue.

BTW, Chalmers Johnson has written on the process by which empires succumb to over-stretch. His "Blowback" trilogy is pretty good--
Blowback (2000)
Nemesis (2004)
The Sorrows of Empire (2007)

[Mandy]

And we all know what followed the demise of the Roman Empire - so I don't want that either!

Actually, I am unsure what part of history you are referring to. Clearly a lot of nations gained independence. But what were you specifically referring to ?

p.s. i did find this entry in Wikipedia : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of ... man_Empire

This had striking paragraph :
--------------------
The military historian Vegetius theorized, and has recently been supported by the historian Arthur Ferrill, that the Roman Empire – particularly the military – declined partially as a result of an influx of Germanic mercenaries into the ranks of the legions. This "Germanization" and the resultant cultural dilution or "barbarization", led to lethargy, complacency and loyalty to the Roman commanders among the legions and a surge in decadence amongst Roman citizenry.
--------------------

When we think of the mercenaries/third-party-nationals in and outside the US military, and the barbarities committed all over the world by these non-US nationals working with/for the US military ...

Just came across this graph :[web]https://chimpplanet.journalspace.com/?cm ... tryid=8983[/web]

[Lostinthestates]

Actually, I am unsure what part of history you are referring to. Clearly a lot of nations gained independence. But what were you specifically referring to ?

I was referring to the Dark Ages. The Roman Empire was actually a blessing to Europe as it introduced a better level of living. After the empire fell apart there was no ordering hand around anymore and hence looting and all the other nice things that go hand in hand followed.

[Mandy]

I was referring to the Dark Ages. The Roman Empire was actually a blessing to Europe as it introduced a better level of living. After the empire fell apart there was no ordering hand around anymore and hence looting and all the other nice things that go hand in hand followed.

Thanks .. and I don't disagree that we might see another "dark ages", indeed, some countries (the ones who are typically occupied) are already experiencing worse than what happened in the dark ages. The future does seem to be full of "green zones" and gated communities (to keep out the barbarians/commoners etc) :



[web]https://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/wor ... 947370.stm[/web]