Kind of like how Tarantino stole idea after idea from Japanese cinema. I don't think it's possible to make anything totally original in any medium anymore, it's all been done.
(edited for crap spelling)
Led Zepplin were thieves?
Last edited by nekokate on Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Marcella-FL
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reminds me of Spider Robinson's short story Melancholy Elephants ... here is a link to a text doc of it:
https://www.baen.com/chapters/W200011/0671319744___1.htm
save it as a text file and head on down to page 6 ... that's where it gets interesting!
here are bits that get you thinking:
"Do you know how old art is, Senator?"
"As old as man, I suppose. In fact, it may be part of the definition."
"Good answer," she said. "Remember that. But for all present-day intents and purposes, you might as well say that art is a little over 15,600 years old. That's the age of the oldest surviving artwork, the cave paintings at Lascaux. Doubtless the cave-painters sang, and danced, and even told stories—but these arts left no record more durable than the memory of a man. Perhaps it was the story tellers who next learned how to preserve their art. Countless more generations would pass before a workable method of musical notation was devised and standardized. Dancers only learned in the last few centuries how to leave even the most rudimentary record of their art.
"There are eighty-eight notes. One hundred and seventy-six, if your ear is good enough to pick out quarter tones. Add in rests and so forth, different time signatures. Pick a figure for maximum number of notes a melody can contain. I do not know the figure for the maximum possible number of melodies—too many variables—but I am sure it is quite high.
"I am certain that it is not infinity.
"For one thing, a great many of those possible arrays of eighty-eight notes will not be perceived as music, as melody, by the human ear. Perhaps more than half. They will not be hummable, whistleable, listenable—some will be actively unpleasant to hear. Another large fraction will be so similar to each other as to be effectively identical: if you change three notes of the Moonlight Sonata, you have not created something new.
... art is long, not infinite. `The Magic goes away.' One day we will use it up—unless we can learn to recycle it like any other finite resource."
Given eight billion artists with effective working lifetimes in excess of a century, we can no longer allow individuals to own their discoveries in perpetuity. We must do it the way the human race did it for a million years—by forgetting, and rediscovering. Because one day the infinite number of monkeys will have nothing else to write except the complete works of Shakespeare. And they would probably rather not know that when it happens.
oh I could quote it all day ... just read it and come back and discuss!
https://www.baen.com/chapters/W200011/0671319744___1.htm
save it as a text file and head on down to page 6 ... that's where it gets interesting!
here are bits that get you thinking:
"Do you know how old art is, Senator?"
"As old as man, I suppose. In fact, it may be part of the definition."
"Good answer," she said. "Remember that. But for all present-day intents and purposes, you might as well say that art is a little over 15,600 years old. That's the age of the oldest surviving artwork, the cave paintings at Lascaux. Doubtless the cave-painters sang, and danced, and even told stories—but these arts left no record more durable than the memory of a man. Perhaps it was the story tellers who next learned how to preserve their art. Countless more generations would pass before a workable method of musical notation was devised and standardized. Dancers only learned in the last few centuries how to leave even the most rudimentary record of their art.
"There are eighty-eight notes. One hundred and seventy-six, if your ear is good enough to pick out quarter tones. Add in rests and so forth, different time signatures. Pick a figure for maximum number of notes a melody can contain. I do not know the figure for the maximum possible number of melodies—too many variables—but I am sure it is quite high.
"I am certain that it is not infinity.
"For one thing, a great many of those possible arrays of eighty-eight notes will not be perceived as music, as melody, by the human ear. Perhaps more than half. They will not be hummable, whistleable, listenable—some will be actively unpleasant to hear. Another large fraction will be so similar to each other as to be effectively identical: if you change three notes of the Moonlight Sonata, you have not created something new.
... art is long, not infinite. `The Magic goes away.' One day we will use it up—unless we can learn to recycle it like any other finite resource."
Given eight billion artists with effective working lifetimes in excess of a century, we can no longer allow individuals to own their discoveries in perpetuity. We must do it the way the human race did it for a million years—by forgetting, and rediscovering. Because one day the infinite number of monkeys will have nothing else to write except the complete works of Shakespeare. And they would probably rather not know that when it happens.
oh I could quote it all day ... just read it and come back and discuss!
Last edited by Marcella-FL on Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Marcella-FL
- Don't make me pull this van over!!!
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I remember learning about that in 6th grade music class and that was easily 30 years ago ... so how "new" is new?faceless wrote:There's a genre of music that I absolutely hate called 'dischordant' - I'm not sure, but I think that's a fairly new invention.
I agree it stinks by the way! I rememer my teacher describing it as putting all the instruments from an orchestra on the roof and chucking them off.
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major.tom
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That makes me think of some modern "classical" music -- I prefer music to have a melody of some kind. It's probably alot of fun for the musicians to play something complex vs. the stuff they've played hundreds of times. But it doesn't do much for me.
One of my favourite rock groups is Yes. Their music seems unlike most rock, probably due to their classical training. But its different without being abstract.
I'm curious, who you all think pushes the boundaries of music? (in a good way, that is)
One of my favourite rock groups is Yes. Their music seems unlike most rock, probably due to their classical training. But its different without being abstract.
I'm curious, who you all think pushes the boundaries of music? (in a good way, that is)
Individuals to my mind (Outside of Frip & Eno, both together & solo) would be:major.tom wrote: I'm curious, who you all think pushes the boundaries of music? (in a good way, that is)
Bill Nelson, ex-Be Bop De Luxe... Many great solo albums
Phillip Glass, so minimal yet pushes it to the enth...
Isoa Tomita, he certainly pushed things back in the day...
David Bowie, from 'MOD' to 'Android', 'She-Male glam' to 'Dodgy Old Geezer'....
For me it's not just his constant reinvention of himself over the years where he pushed the envelope.
This man had musical balls of steel & weilded a very large lyrical crowbar that also changed music by going to the edge & then rather than just sticking his toes in past that edge, he jumped over it with both feet & arms wide open...
Bands / Groups:
White Noise "An Electric Storm"
This opened up a whole new genre in 69, grandfather of ambient & often quoted grandfather of industrial...
For me, it was just beautifuly put together, rich with sound & yet so deeply dark.
Wiki does it no justice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Noise_(band)
The Orb
Ohhh boy, pushed so many limits by pushing so many buttons (on adats & sound boards).
Pink Floyd (Sid Barret years more so than even 'The Wall').
Damned / Buzzcocks / The Clash / Sex Pistols / Siouxsie and the Banshees / The Ramones, all 6 pushed limits & ushered in the Punk scene.
Technicaly maybe not supurb, maybe not pushing limits via quality but certainly pushed music to a new direction opening the doors to a new genre for a new generation & influencing a great many more people to find / create more styles & genres.
@ Major.Tom:
I could list so many people in so many genres, I tried to answer your question with just one person or band, but for me it's darn near impossible.
This would make a decent thread on it's own.