SPOT ON GEORGE .. He just said (paraphrasing since I didn't transcribe it in time)
"How can you be surprised that violence entered your sole / society / veins / homes"
i.e. Cho (and other aggressors) actions are likely to have been affected by the violent environmental pervading the USA .. from the TOP (i.e. Bush & McCain), to the bottom.
Bomb bomb bull...
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IRiSHMaFIA
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Absolutely... and the Rumsfield thing is Georgeology... and there is plenty of that. But timing... rather than content???nekokate wrote:Not at all churlish. Like I said, I love Galloway, but I just won't accept it when he gets things wrong, because someone as respected as him needs to be a little more careful. I believed for more than 8 months that Rumsfeld had actually, literally said "it's not our fault God put our oil under other people's countries" and that effected me deeply and politically. That turned out to be false, and as much as I love the man, I won't fall at his feet and let falsehoods roll off my back like I'm a duck.Colston wrote:Seems a bit churlish to pick up on a matter of timing when surely the point of view is... another US politician makes light of bombing and killing another country's people?
The most important thing in the world is not left-wing opinion, or right-wing opinion, but truth.
It is interesting to remember... 'The visionary lies to himself, the liar only to others.' {Friedrich Nietzsche}
What about the visionary who convinces himself that what he believes is true? Is he or she then lying to us?
Let's not forget that I created this thread merely to point out a factual inaccuracy that I happen to know more than a little about, because I posted a thread in another sub-forum here days ago which was the animation "Let's Bomb Iran!" which John McCain was referencing, and I also saw the video footage of John McCain the day he made that joke, which was not today, but days before.GG_Fan wrote:I wish you took as much interest in the truth of Bush, Blair, 911, what Ahmadinejad really said .. etc.nekokate wrote:The most important thing in the world is not left-wing opinion, or right-wing opinion, but truth.
It was something that resonated with me because I knew what George was referring to, and I knew that he was misinterpreting it as he referred to it, and as such I thought it would be a good idea to post about it.
And as for Bush, Blair and Ahmadinejad - I'm probably on your side concerneing them all, so please don't bring extra issues into this.
Very amusing to me that you enter threads that mirror George's beliefs to play Devil's Advocate, and now I've posted a thread criticising him you enter to call me anti-Galloway.
As I said before, I don't agree 100% with George's views/policies, but I am a supporter & would vote for George wherever he stands. I also believe George would never deliberately mislead people.nekokate wrote:Very amusing to me that you enter threads that mirror George's beliefs to play Devil's Advocate, and now I've posted a thread criticising him you enter to call me anti-Galloway.
But I never claim George is lying or deliberately misleading people. And if I ever did hear George say something which may be factually incorrect, and if I had his personal e-mail and phone number (like you do), I would like to think I wouldn't post it on an open forum like this, but discretely contact George and tell him. That is what a true supporter would do ..
I'll claim I've caught him in a lie before. He quoted an old Lancet figure saying the USUK are directly responsible for most of the deaths in Iraq, then a caller corrected him that a new figure showed that they weren't. A week later he made the claim again. Course, they're indirectly responsible for them all, but that wasn't the claim made.
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IRiSHMaFIA
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Nah I hardly think so. You two ladies seem to have it together well enough. I was just poking a wee bit of fun to try and lighten things up a bit.GG_Fan wrote:Oh .. I wonder .. is there any "rivalry" here for George's attention .. Hope it doesn't get to a cat fight ..IRiSHMaFIA wrote:I think GG and nekokate should each take a leg of Georges trousers and pull. Whoever gets the longest piece wins!
Ready? ........set? PULL DAMN YE PULLLLL!
Above presupposes the caller was right [as you seem to have assumed]. But as seen by the recent report that the "Iraqi 655,000 deaths survey 'was robust'", I believe George. The UK government even tried to claim this figure was wrong when their own scientists/advisers were telling the UK government that the survey was "very robust". The UK government, yet again, twisted the facts, and effectively lied to the media -- a reverse of the dodgy dossier .. this time rubbishing an accurate dossier.Popinjay wrote:I'll claim I've caught him in a lie before. He quoted an old Lancet figure saying the USUK are directly responsible for most of the deaths in Iraq, then a caller corrected him that a new figure showed that they weren't. A week later he made the claim again. Course, they're indirectly responsible for them all, but that wasn't the claim made.
Then there is the distinction of direct / indirect responsible .. if you were one of these 655,000 -- or the millions affected -- you would not care if it was direct or indirect .. the US/UK are responsible .. FULL STOP.
Popinjay, where is your compassion for the Iraqi dead and wounded, and their relatives/friends, including parents / sons / grandsons/ grandparents .. to claim that George lied based on a caller .. and your arbitrary consideration of direct versus indirect ... PLEASE ... focus on the big picture .. not like Kate on this thread who looked at a timing issue, and also wrongly interpreted McCain's speech as just mocking the person who put the question (which I take to mean making fun off of the person, when in reality McCain was making fun of the death of MILLIONS of Iranians .. and god knows how many others, including British Soldiers)
Which reminds me, why don't we hear about how sorry the US government is for British soldiers death ? Did any US official attend any funeral of British solders ? The main thing we hear in relation to British soldiers death is US government obfuscation, half-truth and down-right lies about the causes of the deaths, and whether evidence of the incident exist.
This excessive violence and lies of the US government (and their military) is seen in many stories, including https://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/wor ... 556721.stm
Last edited by Mandy on Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:03 am, edited 5 times in total.
Would you have felt the same way if Iran similarly joked about bombing US or Israel ? or wiping US or Israel off the map ? [Note Iran didn't say this].til661 wrote:Oh come on that was clearly a joke,
In Iran's case, it really would have been a joke, because Iran doesn't have the military means to win any such conflict .. but US has the capability to bomb / flatten / wipe Iran off the map and off this earth .. and in this case, McCain, wants to have his finger on the US's arsenal, including WMDs. This is like giving Cho the guns for free after "joking" in his disturbed writing.
McCain has lost it with this comment .. well, lost it with the people who have compassion .. though I am sure he will pick up lots of pro-Israeli votes, as well as money from the Military Industrial Complex (MIC). Whoever the Republicans or Democrats elect, I believe they will be different cheeks of the same back-side. Congratulations McCain, you have shown your bare faced violence, callousness, lack of compassion for non-Israelis, for all to see.
The US needs courageous, moral and decent leadership to serve as an example to its citizens.. something the MIC, which needs endless warfare for increased profitability, would not allow (and yes, I do think Kennedy was assassinated by the MIC for trying to stand up to them, and trying to nationalize the US Fed so the US doesn't have to pay real interest on "virtual/paper money" to the MIC who own the US Fed)