An ask: The Middle East...

Colston · Post by **Colston** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:52 pm

Can anyone recommend a good well rounded account of the history behind the mess that is Palestine today?

Post by **faceless** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:55 pm

good question - it's always been pretty much a shambolic puzzle with loads of pieces missing for me.

luke · Post by **luke** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:01 pm

norman finkelstein - an issue of justice, origins of the israel-palestine conflict, if you can find it anywhere online, is brilliant

or any of his his lectures/debates/books/documentarys

https://www.normanfinkelstein.com/

Colston · Post by **Colston** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:15 pm

luke wrote:norman finkelstein - an issue of justice, origins of the israel-palestine conflict, if you can find it anywhere online, is brilliant

or any of his his lectures/debates/books/documentarys

https://www.normanfinkelstein.com/

Is this the same Finkelstein who debated with George on SKY and was pro war in Iraq?

popinjay · Post by **popinjay** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:16 pm

Colston wrote:
luke wrote:norman finkelstein - an issue of justice, origins of the israel-palestine conflict, if you can find it anywhere online, is brilliant

or any of his his lectures/debates/books/documentarys

https://www.normanfinkelstein.com/
Is this the same Finkelstein who debated with George on SKY and was pro war in Iraq?

I think that was Danny. Could be wrong, I didn't see it.

Salim201 · Post by **Salim201** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:23 am

yeh that was daniel finklestein, the loser from the independant I think

major.tom · Post by **major.tom** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:08 am

I haven't seen or heard much from Norman Finklestein, but I listen to Democracy Now (democracynow.org) religiously and he's been on a few times. I'd be surprised if he took a pro-war position.

I have a few books I received as x-mas gifts, including "From Beirut to Jerusalem" (Thomas Friedman), "The Great War for Civilization" (Robert Fisk) and "One Country" (Ali Abunimah).

Yes, Santa was very good to me.

PaintDry · Post by **PaintDry** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:26 am

That is quite an ask. Something these days I find myself searching for everyday. I was given two pieces of advice for lifelong happiness when I left school years ago;

1. When you've painted a room at home and you're left with half a tin of paint,throw it away.
2. Don't try and understand the situation in the Middle East.

May I suggest,
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/9AoDQw3o_7s"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/9AoDQw3o_7s" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
.......a brief history.

Zbgniew Brzezinski, https://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2006/10/119973.pdf

A few weeks ago I came across 'Ashkenazi'(Jews). And a few times again since. There will be something else tomorrow. Let it be known if you find something

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:06 am

This video has been highlighly commended :

"Palestine is Still the Issue. Documentary directed by John Pilger"

Description:
Documentary directed by John Pilger regarding the Palestine / Israel conflict. This documentary has to be seen and is important in understanding the most important issue of the Middle East. For this video Please Link to our webSite. www.dunyanews.com Please Visit for more documentaries and Videos.

<embed src="https://video.google.com/googleplayer.sw ... 3&hl=en-GB" width="575" height="460">

Post by **faceless** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:24 am

thanks for postingthat ggfan - I've embedded it here.

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:29 am

Thank you.

major.tom · Post by **major.tom** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:08 am

Looks good. Thanks!

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:13 am

major.tom wrote:"The Great War for Civilization" (Robert Fisk)

Anything by "Robert Fisk" (who writes for UK paper "The Independent") is GREAT.

You can see a video of an interview with Robert Fisk on "Democracy Now!" :

https://www.democracynow.org/article.pl? ... 05/1515214

Robert Fisk on Osama bin Laden at 50, Iraqi Death Squads and Why the Middle East is More Dangerous Now Than in Past 30 Years

Click "Watch 128k stream "

fyi, a google search for Robert Fisk returns "859,000 for "The Independent" "robert fisk"

luke · Post by **luke** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:05 am

no, not that finkelstein

i'm suprised you haven't heard of norman, i rate him up there with chomsky, pilger, fisk etc

Finkelstein lays out the history of the Israel/Palestine conflict with clarity and passion, arguing that any other similar conflict would be perfectly understood, yet this one exists beneath a blanket of ideological fog. Finkelstein cuts through the fog with indisputable historical facts, optimistic that the struggle is winnable, and that it is simply an issue of justice.

Norman Finkelstein was born in Brooklyn, New York, in 1953. He is the son of two Holocaust survivors. He received his doctorate from Princeton University for
a thesis on the theory of Zionism. He is the author of four books, including The Holocaust Industry. His writings have also appeared in many prestigious journals. Currently he teaches political science at DePaul University in Chicago.

Finkelstein is a professor of Political Theory at DePaul University in Chicago and is a major voice on the politics between Israel and Palestine. In the 79 minute long audio CD "An Issue of Justice: Origins of the Israel/Palestine Conflict", Finkelstein "advocates an abandonment of divisive anti-Zionist/pro-Palestinian rhetoric" and suggests we all try looking at this old problem in a new way.

Finkelstein is an entertaining, lively speaker, and he tackles his subject with expertise and a clear, no-nonsense approach. His lecture begins by laying out the Zionist movement and the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine. Finkelstein argues--very coherently--that the entire Israel/Palestine problem is simply about "territorial displacement and dispossession" and as such the Palestinians have "straightforward and uncontroversial objections" (in 1948 80% of the indigenous population was expelled, and this resulted in 750,000 displaced Arabs who floated to Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Gaza.) Citing the development of the American West and the expulsion of its Native American population, he argues that we all clearly understand that the land grab was simply that--a land grab. History books don't see the American Indian wars as a response to "anti-Europeanism." Native Americans fought for their lands and their hunting grounds--nothing more and nothing less. From Finkelstein's perspective, we could do well to step out of the "thick ideological fog" we are immersed in and examine the situation in Palestine from a new perspective.

Finkelstein hits the pivotal moments in the history of the Israel/Palestine situation--the Balfour Declaration, the U.N Resolutions, Olso, the Intifadas and the PLO. And he even has a few words for arch-nemesis Alan Dershowitz. Most of us have grown up in a world where we accept that there will never be a solution to the continued violence between Israel and Palestine, but in this enlightening lecture, Finkelstein remains guardedly optimistic

1. the jewish question & the zionist movement
2. arab antagonism to zionism
3. population expulsion & western european elite opinion
4. zionism, conquest, & elite western european values
5. 1948 & the expulsion of the indigenous population of palestine
6. the 'two state' settlement & international option
7. foiling the plo's peace offensive, the first intifada and oslo
8. arafat the terrorist, the saudi peace plan & the second intifada
9. the big stick operation defensive shield & war crimes
10. the war, concentration camps and the holocaust
11. communism & the moral decision of the two state solution
12. an issue of justice
13. the new technology, research, and alan dershowitz
14. american jews, anti-semitism, influence & israel
15. works in progress

https://www.sendspace.com/file/4a75ew ;)

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:25 am

FYI, a collection of videos and articles on Palestine and Israel.htm :

https://www.spiderednews.com/PalestineandIsrael.htm