Saddam to hang

Post by **eefanincan** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:54 am

6ULDV8 wrote:
mickyv wrote:For sure all the “Leaders” who knowingly lied to justify an illegal attack on a virtually defenceless country, that was no threat whatsoever. Then all the politicians who were either playing “follow the leader” to advance/safeguard their careers, or so dense as to be gullible enough, to support this crime, should also be accountable in some way.
And I suppose that all the people in the world that stood back whilst this 'now dead' mad man killed people & had them killed in his name should also be accountable then..

The world is not a 'just' place...

We do not live in an ideal world....

This is a case of too little too late.

I don't agree with the process of how he was caught nor how he was treated...
I certainly don't agree with the so called WAR (more like a full on invasion)...

But I can't but be anything than happy that one more dictator who killed so many people is now gone.

I agree with you on this point. I do strongly believe in a fair trial and all of that, but, in the end, I do think this was meant to be.

Just saw on the news that the hanging has been carried out.

Regardless of whether or not this was the fairest of trials, I do hope that their justice system will study these proceedings and try to develop into something more stable and equitable. We obviously can't bring him back, but perhaps others the system will work better in the future.

IRiSHMaFIA · Post by **IRiSHMaFIA** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:19 am

eefanincan wrote: Regardless of whether or not this was the fairest of trials, I do hope that their justice system will study these proceedings and try to develop into something more stable and equitable.

Well said eefan.

I've been watching CNN most of the night and can't help but think why all this had to happen. I realise Saddam was a ruthless dictator and had the blood of perhaps millions on his hands along with his sons, but that doesn't give any country the right to illegally invade another country and lie through their rotten teeth that it's all about WMD and possible responsibility for the terrorist attacks on September11th.

The Bush government was trying to con the world into believing his intelligence service told him Saddam had WMD, but that was nothing but a pack of lies as we all know, then the bumbling fool tried to tell us that Saddam had something to do with the terrorist attacks to further justify his reasons, but I think it's fairly obvious the reason he did it was all about oil.

He didn't give a rats arse about the Iraqi people or about democracy, the only thing he saw were dollar signs in his greedy squinting pig eyes he'd get for the oil rich country.

If he cared for those people he'd not still be there and he'd not have attacked in the first place, and not only does he not give a shit for the Iraqi people but he doesn't much care for the Americans he sends in for the slaughter either.

Saddam wasn't a nice guy. As a matter of fact he was a monster and didn't hold much value on the lives of his own people, but how does this execution make us any better than he was? What difference would it make if he sat in jail for the rest of his life rotting away? ...and when did the people of Iraq ask Bush to come into their country and impose the American way on them when they wanted no part of it? Who in hell gave that piece of human waste the right to invade a country that the rest of the world wanted to leave alone...other than his fuck buddy Blair.

[web]https://blogs.salon.com/0002255/2006/12/28.html[/web]

6ULDV8 · Post by **6ULDV8** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:54 pm

I'm again faced with the conundrum of Love of life & hatred of killers combined into media hype & forum threads.. etc...

He is dead now, with any luck he will be at rest, in peace... that's the nice part of me wishing to find some good aspects...

But I can't help but feel justice has been done & perhaps he deserved a bit of the hot coals, nails ripped out etc before being hung...
Good old fashioned eye for an eye stuff...

Nasty bastard mad dictators usualy come to a sticky end, history has shown us that...

The very few who have been sought, caught, jailed, let live... have just about had as much power over a section of the masses as when they were running about...

Had he been left to rot in a jail rather than hung, his followers, supporters & such would have had their light at the end of the tunnel.. the madness would have carried on & all in his name.
Their light at the end of the tunnel has been snuffed & we can hope to see a calmer, faster end to the problems in Iraq.

Could you imagine the Nazi movement in Germany had Hitler been captured & jailed...
Do you think for one moment that it wouldn't have grown, that they wouldn't have still killed in his name, still carried on the fight in his name & tried their damndest to release the bugger by hook or by crook... ???

History shows us, for good or for bad that leaders of any sort that are Jailed are still followed, their ideals upheld & the numbers of their followers keep growing...

Nelson Mandella... Prime example...
Now he was not in the bastard dictator league, but jailed non the less for his ideals, his followers just kept on growing, a good load of nasty shit still happened in his name despite not being what he wanted... (Read about winnie & her soccer team).

Jail would not have put an end to all the crap in Iraq caused by Sadam over the years, nor would it have changed the mindset of his followers...
Snuff out the man at the top & things will change.. no matter how slow... things will change & in ways they could never have done had he been allowed to live.

I must state once again, I dislike the way he was caught, the way his trial went... but at the end of the day, the result is in my mind a desired result.

mickyv · Post by **mickyv** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:36 pm

6ULDV8: “And I suppose that all the people in the world that stood back whilst this 'now dead' mad man killed people & had them killed in his name should also be accountable then.”

I’ll settle just for those who installed, armed & egged him on.

6ULDV8: “But I can't but be anything than happy that one more dictator who killed so many people is now gone.” & “the result is in my mind a desired result.”

This is the difference between you & me; whereas I acknowledge that Saddam was a brutal mass murderer, only in his wet dreams could he dream of killing the numbers of people our “leaders” are directly responsible for, and yet even so, I would not want either Bush or Bliar to hang, rather I would like to see them spend the rest of their lives in jail in Iraq, and perhaps be forced to work in some capacity to help rebuild a Country that they have destroyed, so you see I’m all heart really, no inhuman solitary confinement for our inhuman leaders.

Also your point about leaving him alive would have been an incitement for his supporters to commit “terrorism” is totally bogus, especially in the anarchy in Iraq now. Rather his “supporters” will now be given a fresh impetus & justification to attack the puppet Government even more, and more to the point he will in due course be replaced by another new Saddam type leader for them to pin their hopes on & fight on behalf of.

eefanincan:“Regardless of whether or not this was the fairest of trials, I do hope that their justice system will study these proceedings and try to develop into something more stable and equitable. We obviously can't bring him back, but perhaps others the system will work better in the future.”

From a rotten corrupt origin nothing good can come, so don’t hold your breath.

Style born of anger, but thanks for the appreciation IRiSHMaFIA & janbo1960

Post by **faceless** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:38 pm

No matter what he did in his time in power there were FAR less people killed. Like it or not - I'd rather see a few thousand people killed than a few hundred thousand. The british and americans have murdered (or caused to die) over 650 000 people, and every single one of the deaths that happens today tomorrow and in the future is down to them removing the cap that held that structure together.

When Saddam gassed the Kurds (of course, Winston Churchill was the first to order it way back) the gas was supplied by "us" as were the aerial photographs and maps of where they were which enabled it. Who's responsible when you know these facts?

Personally, I hope that killing Hussein leads to the destruction (electorally) of Bush and Blair. As it might make pricks like them in the future think twice about taking part in wars that have nothing to do with them. They have so much blood on their hands that putting Hussein next to them is laughable.

6ULDV8 · Post by **6ULDV8** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:53 pm

I can't think of a single world leader in history that didn't have blood on their hands in one form or another, be it fighting to stop oppression or enforcing it.

Even the Popes (all of them) have a lot of blood on their hands...

FACTS: Religion, money, control of the masses... all ends with blood...

FACT: We do not live in an ideal world...

FACT: No matter how much we don't like it, no matter who we elect, it's still going to happen...

If it wasn't BUSH it would have happened no matter who was in office, maybe even faster...
If it wasn't Blaire, I'm sure the UK would have joined in...

It's Ironic that everybody feels the way to world peace is by killing (those in power that is).

But then even green peace likes to blow shit up...

End of the day... sadam is no more, we are mixed between the idea of it being good or bad... but then, that is our right to think freely & voice our opinions... something which sadam himself was dead against.

Post by **faceless** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:00 pm

6ULDV8 wrote:that is our right to think freely & voice our opinions... something which sadam himself was dead against.

I had to edit my previous post because I wrote comments that were freely thought, but which are illegal to express - so you shouldn't kid yourself that we live in a free world.

I don't deny that all leaders have blood on their hands but surely it's the amount and reasoning that's important? As is the way that some leaders say that the blood on theirs is somehow "cleaner". Winners always write the history books, yet the USA and Britain have LOST the war. This sketch gets weirder and sicker by the day.

What have the Greens said they wanted to blow up? Parliament? If so, good on em!

Post by **faceless** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:42 pm

No Arab euphoria at Saddam death
By Ian Pannell
BBC News, Cairo

Although the news of Saddam Hussein's execution was widely anticipated in the region, it has been greeted with a mixture of surprise and anger in some quarters - and notable silence in others. For many ordinary people in the Arab world, Saddam Hussein was admired if not particularly loved. He was an active and strident supporter of the Palestinian cause and many regarded him as a strong leader who dared to defy both America and Israel. Images of the former leader having the noose pulled around his neck will shock many. Libya has declared three days of national mourning.

Lawmakers and members of the militant Palestinian group, Hamas, have condemned the execution, with one calling it "a political assassination" that "violated international laws". There is little reason to think the execution will change much in a region that heads into 2007 in a precarious state.

Opposition to the US-led invasion of Iraq was almost unanimous in the region. So perhaps it was no surprise that his trial was also regarded as unfair, as an exercise in 'victor's justice'. Many Arab governments and people saw the legal process as instigated and controlled by Washington. Despite the insistence that the trial, verdict and now execution was a purely Iraqi affair, few in the Middle East will believe that.

But for those who crossed swords with Saddam, his execution is welcome news. Iran fought a long and bloody war with Iraq that killed hundreds of thousands of people on both sides. The country's deputy foreign minister called it a "victory for Iraqis". Hamid Reza Asefi predicted it would lead to more violence in the short-term, but would ultimately benefit the country. But the response from Kuwait, a country Saddam invaded in 1990, was more muted. The state-owned news agency reported the only official reaction which was that this was "a matter for Iraqis".

Most other governments in the region have remained completely silent. To be fair, this is the first day of Eid al-Adha, the most important holiday in the Islamic calendar. Even so, it seems many have chosen not to step onto what is widely regarded as extremely delicate territory. From Egypt, to Saudi Arabia and Jordan, there are real worries that the instability in Iraq will be made worse by Saddam's execution. Sectarian tensions across the Middle East have risen since the US-led occupation and the fear is that this news could make that even worse.

However, while it is possible that the troubles of the region could be affected by a single event - the execution of Saddam Hussein is unlikely to be it. There is violence and instability in Iraq, continuing tension between Israelis and Palestinians, a peace process that (at best) is at a stand-still and an ongoing political crisis in Lebanon. The optimism many felt this time last year that real political change may finally start to trickle through the Middle East has all but vanished.

While the execution of Saddam Hussein may prompt some reflection and probably plenty of analysis, there is little reason to think it will change much in a region that heads into 2007 in a precarious state.

---------------

I think this story says it all. You'd think that the people who were his victims would be delighted and dancing in the streets - I'm guessing they must realise the bigger picture is not worth celebrating...

Post by **eefanincan** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:27 pm

mickyv wrote:eefanincan:“Regardless of whether or not this was the fairest of trials, I do hope that their justice system will study these proceedings and try to develop into something more stable and equitable. We obviously can't bring him back, but perhaps others the system will work better in the future.”

From a rotten corrupt origin nothing good can come, so don’t hold your breath.

Well, I won't hold my breath, but I can still hope that perhaps things will start to change there a bit. The fact that he even got a trial, was something.... I rather thought someone would try to kill him before it even came to that.

It's quite obvious that we will all never agree on these issues, but I thank god that I have the freedom to discuss them here.

mickyv · Post by **mickyv** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:47 pm

We can at least agree to hope that things will change for the better, but I’m not optimistic, at least for the foreseeable future, especially while Coalition troops are still in Iraq. However I will disagree that his “trial” was even remotely a trial, more about show casing US power by demonstrating what happens to “leaders” who dare defy orders from Washington, and I also take issue with just how just freedom we really have, Freedom of Speech is a good slogan, but just watch what you say !

IRiSHMaFIA · Post by **IRiSHMaFIA** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:08 pm

They say there will be a surge in violence because of the murder of Saddam, but how could one possibly tell? There is so much happening on a daily basis that it'd be impossible to really know.

A car bomb went off hours after his death, but it most likely would have happened anyway because there are so many different factions fighting against one another, and it's not about to change or get any better because they killed Saddam. I see it increasing if anything else, and with the American and British troops there, there's never going to be stability.

How could there possibly be when you've foreign invaders in your country that are there to so called protect, but are actually raping, murdering and torturing the citizens? They're mocking actions of the Saddam regime, so how is this meant to make the people feel any better or anymore protected? Atleast with Saddam they saw the enemy coming. They were stabbed from the front basically.

Saddam never got a fair trial. It was prime time entertainment shown on channels such as Court TV, and the iraqi judges were trained by american judges. It was like some trumped up cheap soap opera where his rights were stripped from him. His lawyers had no voice, were given no documents to prepare for the trail so he was basically alone. He had to fight the american judicial system, NOT the Iraqi system.

The Americans handing him over in the final hour so he could be executed was nothing but going through the motions to make it look as thought Iraqi's had control in the end, and if they only handed him over then, then what control did Iraqis really have during the trial?

None whatsoever. The trial was a bunch of bad actors and the story had a predictable ending.

IRiSHMaFIA · Post by **IRiSHMaFIA** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:16 pm

hmmm another thing comes to mind here as I see the news right now.

James Brown passed on this week. He was an entertainer, wife beater and drug addict.

They're basically having a 'rock concert' on CNN that's meant to be his funeral service. It's a big celebration of his life I reckon.

Earlier they had the services for President Ford who got into office over the impeachment of another president. He wasn't voted in and probably quite low in the public opinion polls, and most certainly was after he pardoned Nixon for his crimes.

James Brown is prime time on CNN right now. President Ford's services were just before James Brown.....then when they break to commerical, they show Saddam with a rope round his neck in the last seconds of his life.

It sickens me that some human lives are worth so much more than others, and even though as I mentioned Saddam was a pretty bad person, where's the respect? Where's the dignity here?

None of this might make any sense to you, but it just rubs me so bloody wrong.

Post by **faceless** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:28 pm

IRiSHMaFIA wrote:None of this might make any sense to you, but it just rubs me so bloody wrong.

it makes perfect sense to me - I've not even watched the news today cos I just know I'll be shouting at it!

6ULDV8 · Post by **6ULDV8** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:29 pm

faceless wrote:it makes perfect sense to me - I've not even watched the news today cos I just know I'll be shouting at it!

I tend to agree & have avoided it like the plague myself...

Anything but local 'good' news seems to put a downer on the day...

But alas, in my thirst for knowledge, I do feel compelled to watch 4 or 5 news related shows later today...

Most of the news shows are full of "best of" or "worst of" 2006 crap right now anyways...
They would rather tout their pre-made spin on the year past over anything that could be concidered news worthy...

IRiSHMaFIA · Post by **IRiSHMaFIA** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:47 pm

6ULDV8 wrote:
faceless wrote:it makes perfect sense to me - I've not even watched the news today cos I just know I'll be shouting at it!
I tend to agree & have avoided it like the plague myself...

Anything but local 'good' news seems to put a downer on the day...

But alas, in my thirst for knowledge, I do feel compelled to watch 4 or 5 news related shows later today...

Most of the news shows are full of "best of" or "worst of" 2006 crap right now anyways...
They would rather tout their pre-made spin on the year past over anything that could be concidered news worthy...

I spent the morning watching nothing but and some of the afternoon. I finally made the decision not to watch anymore today because there's nothing more I really care to hear about.

I went from being completely annoyed and angry whilst watching to being in a totally good mood now that I've stopped watching...so I reckon I needed to get well away from it.

I got a show I'm dying to watch but won't get the chance for a couple days. It's 'The Most Annoying People of 2006' and looks like good fun. I'm quite looking forward to it...but as for what they show on the news channels it's all a complete bore.

You're spot on with .....

They would rather tout their pre-made spin on the year past over anything that could be concidered news worthy...

That's exactly why I can't be arsed watching anything of that nature. It's all rubbish basically. I'd rather watch the cheese in the tv!