Shooting at WVA tech ...

[Mandy]

I read that he was on anti-depressants. There is a hot dispute if these make some people suicidal or not (manufacturers deny this, and there was a recent BBC report which reported they were safe for children).

I recall the teenager or young adult who flew a light plane into a tower block a year or two ago was also on anti-depressants.

Unsure how reliable this is : https://www.siliconinvestor.com/readmsg. ... d=23468642

[Skylace]

I read that he was on anti-depressants. There is a hot dispute if these make some people suicidal or not (manufacturers deny this, and there was a recent BBC report which reported they were safe for children).

I recall the teenager or young adult who flew a light plane into a tower block a year or two ago was also on anti-depressants.

Unsure how reliable this is : https://www.siliconinvestor.com/readmsg. ... d=23468642

I keep up with this debate and I tend to believe it's not the medications fault.
You have to understand a few things about depression first. One thing being, people who are very depressed, honestly don't commit sucide as often as people think. The problem being they are too physically depressed to actually carry out the act. However, when they are given antidepressents their enegry levels increase. And sadly, they are usually given medication and that's it. They don't attend counseling to deal with any of the issues that may arise as a result to the medication being mood altering. Instead, they are flooded with new sensations, thoughts, and problems and may still be having to cope with depression but they have no coping skills.
That is the biggest problem I have with psychotropics. Counseling is not required to go along with them and it should be.

[Mandy]

Thanks Skylace. Are you saying that giving psychotropics (anti-depressants etc) without counseling is WORSE / MORE DANGEROUS than not giving them ?

[eefanincan]

I read that he was on anti-depressants. There is a hot dispute if these make some people suicidal or not (manufacturers deny this, and there was a recent BBC report which reported they were safe for children).

I recall the teenager or young adult who flew a light plane into a tower block a year or two ago was also on anti-depressants.

Unsure how reliable this is : https://www.siliconinvestor.com/readmsg. ... d=23468642

I keep up with this debate and I tend to believe it's not the medications fault.
You have to understand a few things about depression first. One thing being, people who are very depressed, honestly don't commit sucide as often as people think. The problem being they are too physically depressed to actually carry out the act. However, when they are given antidepressents their enegry levels increase. And sadly, they are usually given medication and that's it. They don't attend counseling to deal with any of the issues that may arise as a result to the medication being mood altering. Instead, they are flooded with new sensations, thoughts, and problems and may still be having to cope with depression but they have no coping skills.
That is the biggest problem I have with psychotropics. Counseling is not required to go along with them and it should be.

I agree with you here Sky, although the right counsellor would have to be found. Often that can simply be a family physician or someone like a psychiatrist or psychologist--- depending on the situation. Counselling can take many forms and as you pointed out, often when people are one the med's they get much more energy and can actively participate in their recovery and don't require much more counselling than checking in with their family doctor. Others need more intensive therapy. Nothing is perfect though.

[Marcella-FL]

I read that he was on anti-depressants. There is a hot dispute if these make some people suicidal or not (manufacturers deny this, and there was a recent BBC report which reported they were safe for children).

I recall the teenager or young adult who flew a light plane into a tower block a year or two ago was also on anti-depressants.

Unsure how reliable this is : https://www.siliconinvestor.com/readmsg. ... d=23468642

Dude - move to Florida and be done with it! You know all the freaky news stories from MY area!!! Seriously ... that kid flew the plane into a bank building in Tampa about 45 minutes from my house. Is Ritalin considered an anti-depressant? I heard drugs for ADD or ADHD can cause kids to go suicidal.

oh ... and GG ... I am glad you are here because you are such a fly on the ass of civilized society! and I mean that in a good way ... you keep us all swatting when we just want to sit still!

[Skylace]

Thanks Skylace. Are you saying that giving psychotropics (anti-depressants etc) without counseling is WORSE / MORE DANGEROUS than not giving them ?

I'm saying nothing of the sort. When it comes to this sort of thing there are many variables to be taken into consideration. What I am saying is that not getting proper counseling (even if it's just checking in if that's all you need like eefan said) or being monitored while on a psychotropic can lead to problems as the person may not have the coping skills or support base present. Not everyone on antidepressants becomes more likely to commit suicide or act out and not all of them need full time counseling.
However, in the case of Cho it appears that many people along the line dropped the ball when it came to his mental health care.

[Marcella-FL]

being prescribed anti-depressants is not the same as being on them either ...

[Skylace]

being prescribed anti-depressants is not the same as being on them either ...

That's such a good point! I know of many people who are on meds for one thing or another (even antibiotics) and they start to feel better and say "Well, I feel better. So I can stop taking these." Seeming to forget that the reason they are feeling better is because of what they are on. Schizophrenics can be very bad about that.

You also brought up a good point about Ritalin and other drugs used to treat ADD/ADHD. Those don't cause the kids to commit suicide but because some kids have on them that gets people in an up roar. Another good point with that is there are quite a few kids with ADD/ADHD who also suffer from anxiety. However, they have such a hard time staying focused that their anxiety really isn't noticeable because they can't concentrate on being anxious. They take the meds for attention and all of sudden the anxiety comes out and once again they're not receiving any extra support, care or learning coping skills.

It's just like them saying Accutane (a medication used to treat acne) causes suicidal tendencies because on teen (a senator's son I believe) killed himself while he was taking it and he was on no other medications. Now if you're on it you have to go to the doctor once a month get blood tests and report if you feel like killing yourself. Why don't they do the same with people who have actual mental disorders?

It's all so screwed up. I see kids medicated who don't need to be. Then I see kids who they need it so bad and won't get it. Just this year, a student (who was 10) that I said from jump street was a danger to others and he didn't need to be in school with the other kids, attacked five students in 10 mins after nearly choking death one two weeks before. He was retested and has a CGAF (Children's Global Assessment Scale) of 32. A CGAF of 32 states: Unable to function in almost all areas eg., stays at home, in ward, or in bed all day without taking part in social activities or severe impairment in reality testing or serious impairment in communication (eg., sometimes incoherent or inappropriate). He is now in a mental institution which mom had to fight tooth and nail to get him in because there are no facilities in the area to take children of that age. And I fought for a year to get him tested or out of main stream classrooms. It took him attacking those students to finally get anything done.

We are failing our mentally ill and our own society by not taking care of this. The families of the students killed, the college, the community and Cho's family are all victims here. And it breaks my heart.

[eefanincan]

We are failing our mentally ill and our own society by not taking care of this. The families of the students killed, the college, the community and Cho's family are all victims here. And it breaks my heart.

You hit the nail on the head!

[Aja]

I think what this Kid said today on Oprah..(Yes I know Oprah )....But what he had to say made so much sense

https://www2.oprah.com/tows/slide/200704 ... _116.jhtml

[IRiSHMaFIA]

Video he sent to NBC between the shootings

[video width=400 height=350]https://wmscnn.stream.aol.com/cnn/us/200 ... nbc.ws.wmv[/video]

[Mandy]

Video he sent to NBC between the shootings

This is an NBC scoop. Though I fear that his words could incite others who feel dispossessed (or about to be expelled) to try to commit a big atrocity as well.

One thought here : He clearly had lots of time to think about this (including video tape, notes with photographs etc.). As such, even if there was a total ban on gun ownership (like in the UK), he would have had time to get illegal weapons. I believe the media in the US don't concentrate on instances when legal gun owners stop crimes before they become major atrocities. Also, if, by a miracle, governments do prevent all illegal guns being acquired {after all, drugs are still available}, people will find other ways to commit atrocities (bombs etc.). I am all for giving University students the right to carry guns (even if they have to be locked in a car).

Update : From https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6567143.stm which looks at the pattern of campus killers : "the perpetrators planned their attacks some time in advance. Cho must have planned the attack more than a month ago .. such shooters do not snap - they plan and they usually tell a friend or a classmate before the attack.". Chiming with my earlier posting on "geniuses", the BBC report says "This guy was very methodical and very calculated"

Also, he said he did it for his children. Is this metaphoric ? or where is his wife & kids ?

From article :
Today, Craig travels across the country and speaks to thousands of teens every month about the importance of fostering "an atmosphere of kindness and compassion" in classrooms to stop school violence.

Is it politically incorrect to say that how our governments behave has an impact on child psychology (e.g. might is right, no honour, only goal is to win etc.) -- especially when schools have students from multiple origins.

Note that Cho's video mentioned wealth disparity, which is something a lot of people on the left are "fighting" (metaphorically) to remedy, and a lot of people on the right are fighting (literally) to grab. Note that one of the reasons some capitalists promote wealth redistribution is that ultimately it is better for them (to avoid class riots). The video seemed to have class issues as an undertone (note that George Galloway recently spoke about Class on the radio). I doubt if Cho considered himself to be the same class as the people he was referring to.

I just wish it was better times, when we could trust governments and the police to look after our interests, instead of us having to always wonder if they will take advantage / twist situations for their agenda (whatever that may be).

[Mandy]

Oh and I see you're giving the human race a good bit of credit by suggesting people suffering the loss of their sons, daughters, brothers, sisters and friends are going to put that grieving process aside to go bash some Asians.

I am sorry to say that bashing minorities has been the outcome after many atrocities round the world. This one is no exception :

https://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/ ... agedy.html
"Jacobs was alarmed when she also came across several pages that included hateful, sometimes racist remarks toward shooter Cho Seung-Hui, other Asians and his family" ... "How much of our society is accountable as well?"

Note the death threats posted against someone suspected wrongly of being the shooter. This firstly shows the stupidity of the posters (after all the shooter was dead). Should police investigate the posters ? Surely they can find out who they are .. the posters can't be mentally stable ? Recall the recent threats against a female blogger against Kathy Sierra

Why aren't the police hunting down these real terrorists -- rather than fight wars overseas based on fictional scripts .. or wasting time and resources eavesdropping on ordinary citizens .. but who can't seem to capture the "terrorists", including the SPAM/Virus writers.

[faceless]

wasting time and resources eavesdropping on ordinary citizens .. but who can't seem to capture the "terrorists", including the SPAM/Virus writers.

hold up - you want students to be armed and the police to focus on spammers rather than terrorists?

If you're actually serious then you have a very narrow view of the world.

[Mandy]

wasting time and resources eavesdropping on ordinary citizens .. but who can't seem to capture the "terrorists", including the SPAM/Virus writers.

hold up - you want students to be armed and the police to focus on spammers rather than terrorists?

If you're actually serious then you have a very narrow view of the world.

Students used to be allowed to be armed. Recent laws in VA removed that right. There has been at least one past instance of students with a gun stopping other armed aggressors. Cho was very calculating. If he realised other students could be armed, he would likely have been dissuaded from the attack, or stopped much earlier by one of the other students.

UPDATE : Reference to above is https://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/ap ... killer.htm
"In January 2002, a student at the Virginia Appalachian School of Law, Peter Odighizuwa, shot three people dead before other students were able to retrieve guns from their cars and put an end to the carnage before there was more bloodshed. Over thirty victims at VA Tech yesterday were denied that right as a result of a campus gun control law that helped the shooter pick off his targets at will."

I didn't mean the "regular" spammers, I meant the malware, virus writers, hackers who steal credit card information etc. who cause so much damage and cost (time and money) to people world-wide. My comment about the police is that they are actually monitoring the innocent citizens, aren't capturing any real or significant terrorists, whilst the real terrorists are the malware, virus writers and hackers, or the ones who posted sex & death threats to "Kathy Sierra" .. or posted death threats to that innocent Asian man mentioned in the prior posting. It is these people who are likely to be the next mass murderers. Just like the police/mental institutions didn't focus on Cho, they are missing the lesson by not focusing on the people who issued death threats to Kathy Sierra and the Asian guy mistaken for the shooter.

Also "terrorists" are liable to use malware / viruses in future attacks .. and the more the existing malware / viruses writers are allowed to get away with it, the easier for a terrorist to use the same "tricks of the trade".

p.s. Anyway to stop the video auto-playing on this page ?