Rumsfeld's oil quote

[Mandy]

Kate, look at this report

https://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0715-01.htm

It states : "Blair said Britain had been right to invade Iraq."

When Blair actually said "I cannot honestly say I believe getting rid of Saddam was a mistake at all. Iraq, the region, the wider world is a better and safer place without Saddam."

The first is a paraphrase or summary of what Blair said.


p.s. If George Galloway said "Donald Rumsfeld", when he was referring to "Dick Cheney", then that would be an accidental mis-speak if it really was Dick Cheney who he was referring to. I only say this because in your last post you mentioned "Rumsfled". It would be harsh to describe that as "George .. is mistaken, misquoting, and propogating an untruth" .. these are very strong words which can be used out of context.

p.p.s. I found this in another web site, i.e. confusion as to whether Rumsfeld or Cheney said it :

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https://community.channel4.com/eve/forum ... 055557/p/4

"And you think believe that the West has a divine right to the natural resources of other countries ! At least you were right about the quote not being by Rumsfeld, as I was misinformed, it is in fact by Dick Cheney, and the exact quote is “The problem is that the good Lord didn't see fit to always put oil and gas resources where there are democratic governments”. Link https://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/14/5134/72587

But the meaning it the same, that the Neocons believe, just like you do, that the West has a divine right to steal other people wealth & resources."
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Note, that the issue is the meaning .. irrespective of whether Rumsfeld or Cheney said it. i.e. there is confusion as to who said it, but not over the meaning.

[luke]

I am, in writing this, the originator of the phrase, "misquotes and unclear para-phrasing are two cheeks of the same backside".

[Mandy]

no, say it as it is, but add - The problem is that the good Lord didn't see fit to always put oil and gas resources where there are democratic governments ( that answer to and work for us ;) )

Many a true word spoken in jest. I found this reference https://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyus ... uotes.html

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Dick Cheney about his company, Halliburton having done business in Azerbaijan, Burma, Indonesia, Libya and Nigeria

"The good Lord didn't see fit to put oil and gas only where there are democratic regimes friendly to the United States."
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Note the " friendly to the United States." .. i.e. Cheney could really have effectively said what you joked about.

[mickyv]

Goodness ! I'm beginning to regret my original Post !

I think the crux of the matter as to if the intended meaning of the two quotes are the same, is to know exactly the complete context of the speech of Cheney in which the quote is from. I found it in the same dailykos.com site that GG-Fan found it in, which does not provide the whole speech.

However on the same site under the comments I did find this other great quote;

...From "Leap of Faith" by Queen Noor of Jordan:
"Quotes George Bush Sr. as saying to her husband, 'I will not allow this little dictator [Saddam Hussein] to control 25 percent of the civilized world's oil.' Of course the key words here are 'the civilized world.'"

Kate, as you have emails with GG perhaps you can query this with him, maybe he is referring to a real Rumsfeld quote that we cannot trace, or if not I'm sure he would really appreciate being corrected.

[nekokate]

Kate, look at this report

https://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0715-01.htm

It states : "Blair said Britain had been right to invade Iraq."

When Blair actually said "I cannot honestly say I believe getting rid of Saddam was a mistake at all. Iraq, the region, the wider world is a better and safer place without Saddam."

The first is a paraphrase or summary of what Blair said.

You are deliberately ignoring the point I made, because you can't counter it. Paraphrasing, as I'm sure you know, is putting a quotation or a piece of text in different words, normally to simplify it, but retaining the original meaning or direction.

Based on this, it could easily be said that the quote George often attributes to Rumsfeld (or maybe it was Cheney) is mere paraphrasing. But here, again, is the hurdle you keep barging through rather than jumping: He is not presenting it as a paraphrase, or an approximation or summation, he is saying that those exact words were spoken by Donald Rumsfeld. This is apparent in the fact that each time he uses the quote, it is exactly the same wording: "It's not our fault God put our oil under other people's countries". Please acknowledge this difference.

Note, that the issue is the meaning .. irrespective of whether Rumsfeld or Cheney said it. i.e. there is confusion as to who said it, but not over the meaning.

No. I won't accept that at all. The issue is the meaning? Are you suggesting that if we dislike someone we should have free range to attribute quotes to them that they never spoke, demanding that it was a fact that they spoke them? And if anyone complains we should say "chill out, I was just paraphrasing!"??

[Mandy]

He is not presenting it as a paraphrase, or an approximation or summation, he is saying that those exact words were spoken by Donald Rumsfeld.

Kate,

Please show me exactly when GG said that he was quoting "exactly" or "verbatim" or "in quotes". If it is what he normally says on the radio, then, as far as I can tell, he is paraphrasing.

Then show me a link to the actual speech you think Cheney (or Rumsfeld) said which you think GG is referring to.

i.e. Until that point, GG gets the benefit of my doubt -- not least since the sources I and others have found (and mentioned above) are close enough to what GG said if he was paraphrasing.

Do note that we can't decide that GG really did mispeak or misquote since we don't have GG's side of the story.

This sounds like a question for a caller in .. or a texter .. to the TS show. I would be interested to see how GG handles the question .. but it seems we are splitting hairs here. At worst, this is artistic license .. not a dodgy dossier.

[nekokate]

Please show me exactly when GG said that he was quoting "exactly" or "verbatim" or "in quotes". If it is what he normally says on the radio, then, as far as I can tell, he is paraphrasing.

Are you really that stupid? I'm sorry to be this blunt, and I respect you for your dedication on spiderednews.com to archiving Galloway media, and even more than that I respect Faceless and IRiSH who maintain and pay for this site, and I hope you will all excuse me for temporarily being a little rude, but seriously... are you really that stupid??

When someone says "Don't forget, Donald Rumsfeld actually said..." and then follows it with something he did not actually say... that is not paraphrasing, as I have told you more times than needed for it to have sunk in.

Then show me a link to the actual speech you think Cheney (or Rumsfeld) said which you think GG is referring to.

That's what I'm asking you to do! How can you demand that I provide a link to a quote, when I opened this very thread with a post saying I needed help because I couldn't find that exact quote?

The only links you have given have been to blogs, and responses to blogs. Blogs are not reputable news sites. I have a blog - does that mean I can back my argument up in here by linking to my own blog? This is exactly the rubbish you were caking the climate change swindle thread with - propping up your argument with links to other message forums and things other people freely posted instead of actually proving anything you are saying.

Linking to a blog, rather than a reputable site, is like saying "it's true, cos my uncle Billy said so".

[faceless]

How can you demand that I provide a link to a quote, when I opened this very thread with a post saying I needed help because I couldn't find that exact quote?

The only links you have given have been to blogs, and responses to blogs. Blogs are not reputable news sites. I have a blog - does that mean I can back my argument up in here by linking to my own blog? This is exactly the rubbish you were caking the climate change swindle thread with - propping up your argument with links to other message forums and things other people freely posted instead of actually proving anything you are saying.

Linking to a blog, rather than a reputable site, is like saying "it's true, cos my uncle Billy said so".

gg_fan - you need to catch yourself on here. Devotion to an ideal is a good thing but Galloway is not a sacred cow.

[major.tom]

I did a little search myself and have been unable to find that quote. It would dishearten me to think GG would use it without knowing it's authenticity. Perhaps someone should raise it with him (in private or public).

[Comsatangel]

I'm with Kate on this one. Rumsfeld's actual words simply state that much of the world's oil is controlled and owned by countries that do not conform to the USA's definition of democracy. He absolutely does not state that this oil is rightfully the property of the USA. You may be of the opinion that this is what he is implying, but it is simply just that, an opinion. It also happens to be my own opinion.

On the other hand, George G, in his misquote, is taking this implication and presenting it as a statement of fact when it is not fact. I am certain that Rumsfeld believes this oil should belong to the USA. I have no doubt about that. But in this case, this is not what he said, and to attribute this quote to him is misleading in the extreme.